Stolen Camera Register ?

[Jola]

I don't know whether this has been discussed before, but it would be great if a stolen camera register could be implemented on a site like ODP.

But it would need a database-like search function, and preferably be properly integrated into the site. Loose posts with general details are just not going to work.

Anyone suffering a loss could then post the details there, and if someone else wants to purchase a camera from, say, Junkmail, they can then just search for something like "Nikon D70s 3021212" (actual details of camera stolen inside SA Post Office EMS Depot in Isando - Aug 2005).

If it works well enough, it may be possible to convince camera repair companies to also check equipment coming in for maintenance / repairs. With the emphasis on "may", I am not sure that they would bother.

Remember that the legal ownership of stolen goods does not change, it always belongs to you. Unless it is insured, and the insurance company pays out, they would then become the owners.

[j-ms]

I would be happy to write the software to provide a database like this that is accessible across the 'net (and even host it if Hedrus does not want to). What is important though, is to make sure that the information in it is valid and does not include out-of-date or erroneous data, eg. it was stolen but then recovered or there are figures transposed in the serial no etc.

[Creeper]

Another requirement is that the limit in the search. Only the full serial nr can be searched upon. No boolean or wild cards.

It will be preferable that an established photo website (hint hint) add the funcionality to its website and have it linked to a user. It will also prevenI would also understand way a website won't do it, it will cause a lot of user registration of empty account and perhaps additional abuse to the forums.

I forsee it as this:

1. A REGISTERED user will be able to add brand, model and serial numbers to the database of stolen goods.
2. A person that bought, saw a camera at a pawnshop, had a shady person try to sell him a camera (like they use to do with car radios in Pta CBD), record the serial number and search only upon the correct serial nr.
3. The user that registered will be informed and the person searching can send a PM to the user.
4. The website will not divulge the username or the other person's details.

In truth, it will be great to have a website that contains more than just camera equipment, but any stolen equipment.

Insurance companies will also find benefit in this, so it may be worth to get one as a sponsor.

Just my 2c

[James Mitchell]

If one can get the various short term insurers to buy into this, there could be an industry-wide revolution. The companies could then state that a claim may be paid on condition that the serial numbers and details are put on the website. There could be a link to the person that lost the equipment, so that stolen items may be reported to the rightful owner as well.

[Creeper]

If one can get the various short term insurers to buy into this, there could be an industry-wide revolution. The companies could then state that a claim may be paid on condition that the serial numbers and details are put on the website. There could be a link to the person that lost the equipment, so that stolen items may be reported to the rightful owner as well.

The insurers can give concession for people using the website to record all their details rather then not paying out.

Another factor will be to have distributers also buy into this. If they get equipment in for repair, they should check on the database if it is stolen.

[GroenHoender]

it is a good idea to have such a database but don't the various camera manufacturers already have a database of their own products?

after all, it is one of they ways to counter grey products, especially from hi-technology/cheap market segments like Dubai and Singapore where people think nothing of making a clone product(s).

other problems that might arise from such databases is the secondhand market: not everyone will be aware of this database service and when they try to sell their possessions, all legally, they will run into a wall if the new owner/buyer insist in verification of serials and find nothing or numbers don't match.

i am sure the only way to have a camera register, is with the manufacturers themselves?

[Jola]

The manufacturers don't keep registers of stolen cameras. A register of cameras that they sold is of no use.

If you check a register of stolen goods and "if the new owner/buyer insist in verification of serials and find nothing or numbers don't match" then the camera is not stolen property (or has not been recorded as such) and it is OK for the deal to go through.

If the camera turns out to have been stolen after all (remember that purchasing stolen property is a criminal offence), what better way to prove to the authorities that you were prudent by first checking a register. Not your fault that it was not recorded. You will still lose the equipment, though, but at least you won't get a criminal record.

BTW, a lot of the secondhand goods sold by shops are stolen goods. I have seen this for myself with a well-known shop in Johannesburg. It is obviously a good place for criminals to go when they have fancy equipment to sell, and the shops just don't check well enough.

And be very suspicious if you buy something and the seller has "lost" the charger and cables. Better still if he has all the accessories and the box as well, even the original invoice.

[Creeper]

The idea is to store serial numbers of stolen equipment, not all equipment. And yes, manufacturers do have databases containing the information, but if they can correlate with their system when a camera enters for repairs that it is stolen or not, it will save trouble.

[GroenHoender]

ah, ok, stolen register, not sales register. but nice and easy to correlate between them, yeah.

then again, if your property is stolen, do you make (or do you make not) the effort to contact all organisations, like SAPS, insurance and Canon/Nikon, to inform them of your stolen possessions?

in my case, when my Tazz was stolen, i informed Toyota SA and they blacklisted the car in their systems. same actions happened with stolen purses (with credit cards) = banks block them.

so, did anyone though of calling Canon SA or Nikon SA and asking for their inputs on this idea? who knows, they already might have such a 'stolen register' idea? or even implemented?

[Jola]

I tried to report a stolen camera to Nikon SA, they didn't seem interested.

But also, if the camera never breaks, they won't ever see it.

Better to stick it on a Stolen Camera database immediately after the theft, it may show up on Junkmail in a week or two.

Would also be great if the camera shops would check such a register but I have a suspicion that they make too much money out of buying equipment of unknown origin and wouldn't bother.

[James Mitchell]

Junkmail and bidorbuy could post a link on the database page, so that the prospective buyers could check from the webpage whether the equipment has been listed as stolen or not. This idea has fantastic potential.

[Creeper]

Junkmail and bidorbuy could post a link on the database page, so that the prospective buyers could check from the webpage whether the equipment has been listed as stolen or not. This idea has fantastic potential.

Hell, why not? PM me if someone is interested to take this further.

[Jola]

Junkmail and bidorbuy could post a link on the database page, so that the prospective buyers could check from the webpage whether the equipment has been listed as stolen or not. This idea has fantastic potential.

OK, but then the seller has to post the SN in the ad, and he may not want to do that. But the buyer could always ask for the SN over the phone or via a PM.

[jab2]

OK, but then the seller has to post the SN in the ad, and he may not want to do that. But the buyer could always ask for the SN over the phone or via a PM.

I agree, having the number visible will open all kinds of doors for the shady people. I'm sure an ap can be written so that only a stolen or not message is generated.

[Jola]

OK, it seems to be possible to design a system that addresses everyone's concerns.

But it would require the cooperation of photography sites, auction sites, advertising sites, shops and repair facilities in order to make it really work.

Does hell need to freeze over before one can achieve that ?

PS : Commercial incentive, maybe pay R25 to perform a check ? I would gladly pay that to know that something that I am buying is not stolen. But maybe others don't care ?

[j-ms]

It would be easier/better for the person reporting the stolen item to pay a small fee (maybe this should be a voluntary fee).

AsI said, I am happy to write the SW and host the site (although it would be better if it were accessed via an established photographic site like ODP).

I had 2 laptops nicked about 3 months ago and I still have the scars - hence my motivation. I had the original invoices & S/Ns of the laptops so a site like the proposed one could have been useful.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

I would like to suggest that it should be taken further:

If you would like agencies (the SAP, Insuarance, bid-or-buy, etc) to take you seriously, you would need to have the statistics to prove that people use the service.

A better idea may be to list all your camera equipment as you buy it, and thereby populating the the database. This way, if your 24-70 lens gets stolen, you can just tag it, all the relevant details is there allready.

This must be a one way gate though, no personal data out, just data in.

Superusers (Like SAP) can access owner details, or a blind e-mail can be sent by the system if somebody located what they think is stolen equipment.

The added benefit of it is that you can quickly grow your userbase to make it more attractive to agencies (like insurance) so you have 2600 users (perhaps) but only 70 that posted thefts. 70 listings doesn't sound earthshattering and will not let money come in to maintain such an endeavor.

Also, it has benefits to secondhand sales. If a person adds a lens, and sells it, it can be tagged as sold, and a second person can add it as theirs. That way, the lens can have a "history" that can be researched.

From there you can build a gateway virtual secondhand shop where people can list their equipment for sale. many sites can access the database simultaneously, so you have a wider audience, and a better grouping of products.

Although I have written down my serial numbers 10 times allready, I can for the life of me not think where to find any of that information now, so if my stuff gets stolen, an online information store would be ideal for my purposes.

[klick]

I have not read all the post. I have jumped to the bottom to input my 2c. My camera Nikon 8800 was robbed off me in march 1 2006. I then bought a d50 and at the free training course given by nikon I met one of nikon's reps. He told me that I must email the serial number to him and he will put it on their computer. The next day I emailed al the particulars to him. BTW I did open a case at the sap. They caught the guys a hour later and 2 months later they walked free due to the investagation bugger up. No id parade ect.

[Jarret]

I was robbed at gunpoint about 2 hours ago, in Paulshof.

My Nikon D200 with Nikkor 70-200VR lens was taken.

If any one should come across plse contact me via PM. They took my cell phone swell.

Thanks
Jarret

[qball]

Jarret - you OK?

If I was robbed two hours ago I would still be in shock.