Stolen photographic goods

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

I see Braddo has just posted a link on the facebook site to this thread. Cool.

Yep, And for some reason my application to join the group was declined...

EDIT:

Declined Three times... ai... I find that strange at the very least.

re-EDIT:

Allowed to join the last of the groups I was directed to this evening... Posted a response.

[braddo]

Sean maybe it would be appropriate to post a link on that site to this thread so that people can see for themselves what went down on this thread on this site?

I have just done so, thanks !

[Alvin]

oh what a load of bull!!!!
ODP has nothing to do with the case or the events.

[bomtek]

I see Braddo has just posted a link on the facebook site to this thread. Cool. Any clear-thinking reading of this thread here will make obvious that his inference of ODP bias in favour of the alleged perps is a bit hysterical. The fact that ODP admins have elected to restrain themselves from committing the ODP site to prejudice against any individual based purely on not-yet proven allegations, does not constitute what Braddo implies it does; prejudice in favour of criminal activity by ODP members.

Actually I think we've shown extreme restraint, particularly Sean!!!

"3 GUIDELINES
ODP guidelines are based on the following principles:

1. ODP believes in the notion of building a community and trusts that all members will uphold the name of Outdoorphoto.co.za. ODP believes that everyone has something to contribute to the community, no matter the level of expertise. The principle aim will always be to motivate and inspire others.
2. ODP believes that each member is honest and capable of showing respect towards other community members. ODP will not tolerate flaming, fighting, bashing, deconstructive arguing and mudslinging.
3. ................."

The rest of which, may be found here

[Andre v]

I find it quite sad that this whole issue has caused so much friction between 'togs.
Let rather just talk about cameras!

[Derek Antonio]

I am not sure I follow?

Are you implying that ODP somehow got hold of every members home address and gear list and supplied it to a criminal entity that robs them of their photographic gear?

I just want to make very sure of the facts and what You and Brad Ruiters is accusing Outdoorphoto, the Admins and the Owners of, both on this forum and on other public forums as well as the social networking sites.

Sean, I suggest you go back and read exactly what I said in my posts, before making such a ridiculous statement. As everybody here was ganging up against Brad, I simply tried to play Devil's advocate and clarify why I thought he was so upset. As a member of ODP, my equipment is listed in my signature...as are many members on this forum. So another ODP member would be able to very easily compile a list of names and gear of ODP members. If it turns out that the ODP member in question is in fact guilty of knowingly dealing in stolen gear and collusion with criminals who violently targeted professional photographers, then I'm sure you'll agree that my concerns are valid. We do trust our online colleagues and friends, but when something like this happens it can be a cause for concern.

Brad and I are two seperate individuals, and do not speak for each other or even necessarily hold the same views on anything. Just because I defended him, you now attempt to demonise both of us in a manner which is unsettlingly similar to the intolerance we see in South African politics, but not acceptable on a photography forum. So instead of outrage being focussed on a possible criminal in our midst, you rather focus attention on the whistleblower...Very sad.

Brad has been treated very badly here - members questioned his credentials, insinuated that he was lying about his gear being stolen, etc. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Andre v]

Crap like this makes the forums an unpleasant place. With comments like what i have seen in this thread all that is happening is that people are taking sides and anamosity is spreading.
Why cant you guys just have your feud via PM or email!

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

I find it quite sad that this whole issue has caused so much friction between 'togs.
Let rather just talk about cameras!

Yes very. The whole situation is bad for everybody concerned... I have also been robbed, years ago and twice in the space of a week... after which My wife and I literally only owned the clothes we were wearing. (after the second robbery my wife posted a sign in the window "We've been robbed already!")

Being the victim of crime is never great. On wednesday I walked into a guy that cost me a few hundred thousand because of his fraud. It took us years to recover from his actions, but he never got caught and never saw the inside of a jail cell or court room. If anything, at least here there will be a result. Whether it's what people want or not, the Law will take it's course and we will see a result.

[robert_s]

I'm sorry, LOL, The logic of this bounds on the fantastic
If one doesnt post on forums, it affects the credibility of the posts he does make?

Ummm, yes? Credibility is the quality of being believable or worthy of trust and isn't trust something that is typically earned? ODP is a community and through your involvement in a community, people get a sense of who you are. A few posts doesn't give people (who don't know you in any other capacity) to form much of an opinion. Fortunately though, you seem to be rectifying that with your recent posts.

Robert

[Andre v]

This thread was started to inform members about stolen goods.
It has developed into a public platform for a few photographers to fight about some thing. Tempers are getting heated and no good can come of this thread

I appeal to the admins of this website to lock this forum for further threads. The topic has informed the members of this forum of the stolen goods issue at hand.
I do not see this being constructive to either the photographers slinging insults and accusations at each other or to ODP in general

PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD!

[Hedrus]

Hi,
I have just return after a day out. I was alerted by the moderators about this thread.
i have to admit i havent got much of an idea of what is going on but I shall look into it.
This thread will be locked for the time being.

[Hedrus]

ODP's Stance against Criminal Activity.


Since the very beginning of Outdoorphoto's existence we have based our community on mutual respect for each other as photographers and individuals. Whether we agree with camera brand, shooting technique, style or subject matter, we have all had our passion of photography in common, and could, as such treat each others as equals.

This fact is constantly referred to in our Terms of Service that all members agree to when joining this online community

"…All members are encouraged to openly and respectfully communicate on this platform…"

"…ODP believes in the notion of building a community and trusts that all members will uphold the name of Outdoorphoto.co.za. ODP believes that everyone has something to contribute to the community, no matter the level of expertise. The principle aim will always be to motivate and inspire others…"

"…ODP believes that each member is honest and capable of showing respect towards other community members. ODP will not tolerate flaming, fighting, bashing, deconstructive arguing and mudslinging…"

"…ODP believes that all members will post acceptable content, since ODP does not censor and moderate each post before it goes on the web. Should content be unacceptable, ODP will remove it. This is especially true if the material includes or refers to violence, is of a pornographic nature or if it denigrates other community members…"

Due to the sheer size of the community, it was inevitable that we would attract members that did not share our "friends around the campfire" mentality for our community and attempted to take advantage of the ODP community or specific members.

Our moderators and administrators have always tried to protect the global community as far as is possible and reasonable, a thankless job for which they are often verbally attacked, and retaliated against through various petty avenues, making their voluntary jobs even harder, but through this we have all tried to constantly develop the community and the opportunities provided to the community.

To this end we have developed and is still developing an online shopping system with countrywide shipping, an active gallery and portfolio section where members can display their works, a Magazine area where articles and reviews are published, and so on and so forth. And because of the expenses associated with our photography hobby, we have also activated a free "classifieds" section where members could buy, sell and trade their used photographic gear to other enthusiasts.

Again, due to the size of the community, the classifieds section has also grown drastically over the years, which has unfortunately led to criminal elements taking notice of the valuables traded between members and frequently attempts to take advantage of members, either by contacting them as a potential buyer of goods, or by attempting to sell goods which they may have obtained illegally or do not even possess.

When our administrators and moderators come across fraudulent and criminal activity, we will suspend and ban a user until such a time as the member can prove the authenticity. If either criminal activity not authenticated, we will generally leave the account intact with a notification that the member was banned due to possible fraud. (google "outdoorphoto possible fraud" to see notifications) We do this to make it easier for people trying to establish legitimacy in a transaction, both on ODP as well as other avenues like the major print and online Classifieds Services.

This remains a free service between members and ODP does not at any time become involved in the transactions unless we are advised about possible criminal activity, in which case we suspend and ban accounts as mentioned earlier. To date we have closed 1201 accounts for Terms of Service violations (This includes spambot accounts and link spammers)

We have discussed the possibility of closing this service, because of the possible risks, but that would also deprive the larger community (28,000 and counting) of a "safer" trading environment, potentially causing more harm to our members. Further; if any actions tarnish the reputations of ODP, Outdoorphoto or the name of the owners, we shall rather choose to close the service than to entertain it.

Because we cannot authenticate legitimacy of any transaction or 2nd hand equipment through Outdoorphoto, we would like to reiterate that when you, as a member, buy second hand goods. Please follow these guidelines:

1. Never part with your money unless you are 100% convinced the transaction is legitimate and the products are authentic and in good working order.
2. If in doubt, ask for serial numbers and contact the SAPS to confirm that equipment is not on lists of stolen goods, or use sites like http://www.stolencamerafinder.com/ or http://www.tagga.co.za/ to check possible stolen equipment
3. If not sure, walk away from a transaction
4. If you get calls from people you feel uncomfortable with be wary. One suggestions it to engage the person in photographic lingo. If he does not understand the lingo, he maybe is not a real enthusiast.

Outdoorphoto has never, and will never condone criminal activity. It goes against the moral and ethical values of the founders and breaks down the principles on which this community is based - mutual respect and friendship.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

Direct link to the above statement: http://odp-direct.co.za/c/criminalactivity

[Deon RacePics]

This thread came back to me today ...

[JPvdMerwe]

Yep, or maybe yesterday???? Some clarification might help...... IE what happened between the beginning of July till now, all cleared?

[Deon RacePics]

Yep, or maybe yesterday???? Some clarification might help...... IE what happened between the beginning of July till now, all cleared?

Exactly ...

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

Not cleared up... well... not exactly...

Seems the story took on hectic proportions because many of the claims were in error or to deliberately damage a reputation... I do not know. Reported facts in the newspapers and various blogs and forums seems to have been in error to a degree. The newspaper story reported those "facts" and it seems to a large degree, the Police also responded accordingly. Obviously as the mud cleared over time, the 'evidence' started to look different.

What I do know is that the ODP member in question had their equipment returned by SAPS (except three items, which was stolen goods), no further action seems to be happening from them or the Prosecuting authority. The member has been registered as a second hand seller (as required by law)

Seeing that the member is allowed to trade legally by the authorities, we have tentatively opened up his account again. Should anything else come to light, we will close the account, and any accounts that contravene our agreements.

[JPvdMerwe]

Thanx for the clarification Sean! Appreciated.