Canon 5DMK3 or 7D+5DMk2

[jayson]

I shoot glamour, events and wildlife. I love my 5dMk2 for events and glamour. It falls short in the wildlife action category.
So I thought I should get a 7D body and have both areas covered, or maybe buy a 5DMK3 instead and sell the 5dMK2.

I had the 60D but did not enjoy switching from the 5Dmk2 to 60D for wildlife, as the ergonomics felt completely different.

Any thoughts or suggestions on the matter ?

[Green Gorilla]

Why not just get a 1d4?

[Alroy]

Hi Jayson. If you only want to use one camera for both wildlife and glamour, I would suggest the 5D3. Hi resolution and awesome noise handling with a new auto focus system and a higher frame rate.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

Although the 5DmkIII is a very capable camera, I think the 1DmkIV might still be a better wildlife camera (AF speed, general speed and weather sealing) - anywhere else I think the 5DmkIII is better.

[Phillip.Grobler]

With the 7D + 5d have the benefit of two bodies that can be mounted with diferent lenses. And the aditional reach of the cropped sensor.

I'm also just tagging allong because I have the same question with the 1ds III and 5d II + 50d.

Are both glamour and wildlife comercial or is one a hobby ?

[Grant Atkinson]

Hi Jayson
If you are finding that when you shoot wildlife with the current 5Dmk2, you are always shooting at maximum focal length, and you still need to crop a bit to get it closer, then the 5Dmk3 will not necessarily be the all-in-one answer. However, its autofocus, frame rate and image quality are all pretty good for wildlife. But it has very similar pixel pitch to the 5Dmk2 and as such will provide similar subject size (just a bit bigger with the 5Dmk3), cropped or not.
If you do need more reach than either of the 5D bodies can provide, then the 7D is the way to go. It will give you identical field of view crop as the 60D, the subject size advantage that small pixels enjoy, and handling and control surfaces similar to the 5D with speed and good AF...
If you are not focal length limited, and have enough lens on your subject regardless of whether using full frame or field of view crop, then the 5D3 should be good enough to do all the jobs very well.

[Alvin]

I'd love a new 5DIII,
but to replace my current 5DII,
my 7D will however stay unless it gets replaced with a 1DIV one day when I'm big.

[Thinus155]

I own both the 7D and the 5Dmkii and both are extremely good in their respective fields. The 5Dmkiii is an absolute monster, unfortunately so is the price! But it is definately better to own 2 cameras as there is always a backup available!

[jayson]

Thanks for the input everyone. A 5dmk3 body is about 31k. the 7D+5dmk2 combo is about 35k. I have a 550D as a backup camera. Shoot 60% people/events and 40% wildlife. Part of me wants the 7D cos of the fps for wildlife action, but I am used to the "creamy" pictures of the 5dmk2. Still a bit stuck. Help !!!!!

[Grant Atkinson]

Hi Jayson
If you can afford it, then get the two body combo...and have the best of both worlds (almost). Also, not sure of your lens setup, but using two bodies in the field, or with people shots, each with a different lens mounted, saves time in changing lenses, plus wear and tear on your mounts, and minimises chances for dust to get into your camera.
7D plus 5D2 is a great combination.
cheers
Grant

[manus]

Hi Jayson

I am not sure who told you that the 5D MkIII is not a suitable wildlife camera, it is!!! Yep, the only draw back is the frame rate at 6fps and maybe the smallish buffer of 18 (RAW), but it's AF system is better than the 7D's, and the noise control far superior than the 7D. Check out my review of the 5D MkIII on my site at http://www.dslrtraining.co.za/index..../reviews?id=22.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

Hi Jayson

I am not sure who told you that the 5D MkIII is not a suitable wildlife camera, it is!!! Yep, the only draw back is the frame rate at 6fps and maybe the smallish buffer of 18 (RAW), but it's AF system is better than the 7D's, and the noise control far superior than the 7D....

I think the references were to a few other reviews and comments about the 5DmkIII. We have found, for instance, that if you tracking is directional and smooth (BIF for instance) the tracking is spectacular if you can give the camera time to assess.

Close up, cross vector AF uptake is slower than a 7D and 1DmkIV. As well as movement away from you at acceleration, the 5DmkIII didn't fair very well. I did, however feel that it improved if I switched from Ai mode to M (not sure if metering pulls resources from AF calculations to such an extent... or if there was another outside influence)

For the rest of your review, I am pretty much in agreement.

[jayson]

How significant is the 2fps difference between the 5dmk3 and 7D ? What action shots am I likely to miss. For capturing wildlife in action, which is more relevant, the fps or the focusing system ? (ie. 7D has the fps, 5Dmk3 has a better AF-system and lower noise).

[manus]

Hi Sean

There is so many people trying to write reviews about the 5D MkIII and loads of them are not very specific how they set-up the AF system to test the camera as well as how the AF system is set-up on the other cameras, so comparing becomes really useless information. As you know, from playing with the 5D MkIII, it's AF menu set-up has several variations (as what the 1D MkIV and 7D has), but MUCH more flexible than both the 1D MkIV and 7D, so it is critical to set-up the AF system for the subject you are going to shoot, especially the Accel/Decel setting (which the 1D MkIV or 7D does not have). The next very important issue is AF expansion, I usually shoot all my images without AF expansion, except when I used the 1D MkIIN and now with the 5D MkIII. The reason for not using AF expansion was that the AF system will always select the closest AF point and not the selected one, giving inaccurate AF. With the 5D MkIII, Canon has changed their thinking and made the selected AF point priority and the expanded AF points just assisting points (unless you use the third option in the AF menu that expanded AF points must also track "AF point auto switching").
The other factor is how many expanded points do you use? Well learnt my lesson already with the 1D MkIIN, the answer is fewer is better!! You had the option to expand 7 or 13 AF points and when you used 13 the AF system became very slow, so I only used 7 or none. The same here with the 5D MkIII, I use only 1 or expand to 4, using all 61 or Zone AF expansion is a very bad option, to much info for the camera to cope with plus the camera falls back into the old habit of selecting the closest subject to focus on.
Two other factors to consider is the way you AF and the cropping factor. The first one is a very interesting debate and one Canon does not respond to, and that is using the the back AF-ON button to AF with and the Shutter button to meter vs Shutter button for both. There is for sure a improvement in AF reliability using the two button option, especially when tracking!! The 5D MkIII has the same AF system as the 1DX except for the iTR (Intelligent Tracking and Recognition) with colour, so maybe this is making the difference you picked up in Ai vs M and that the metering is making a major contribution and is acting if the iTR is switched off but still gathering some info, not sure just speculating on this one.
The last point is cropping factor, and I refer to your close-up cross vector AF uptake. Again you need to compare apples with apples, when I was comparing the results between the 1D MkIV and 5D MkIII, I saw exactly what you say and even with distant images 50 metres plus that the 1D MkIV performed better. Then I realized that the 1D MkIV has more contrast and detail to work with as the image is closer (cropping factor 1.3x) than the full frame (and the 7D will have even more)!! This will help with the AF performance. I then changed the working distance so that I get the same magnification and the 5D MkIII outstripped the 1D MkIV!!
In the field, photographing birds the 5D MkIII outperformed the 1D MkIV consistently, even with a 1.4x converter on vs prime on the 1D MkIV.

[jayson]

don't forget about my fps vs AF question

[Grant Atkinson]

Hi Jayson
For me, the difference between 6 fps and 8fps would not be game changing. I find it far more important to have good AF. The 7D has good AF at 8fps, the 5D3 (although I have not tested it yet) has even better AF at 6fps it would seem. Getting 6 instead of 8 fps will make a little difference here and there when photographing a bird in flight, or an action sequence, but remember you often only need one good shot from a sequence. At least that is how I look at it. No doubt the frame rate advantage of the 7D is a real one, but 6fps is enough for wildlife, particularly if it is combined with high-quality AF.
cheers
Grant

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

Hi Manus,

I am not sure if I'm the sean you were responding to?

I have tested all the focus options as you mentioned, switched on and off, adjusted the AF modes and tracking, etc, etc... On another forum I also followed in a pretty decent discussion about the expansion modes, and whether they switch off when not selected - unlike previous models, it "seems" the AF points remain active as "assists" to give the camera more data to work with in predicting the AF.

Whether this is true or not, nobody is exactly sure, because canon has not uttered a word about it. The reason some feel this is the case is because that under certain conditions, you can switch off AF points, but when you move your active AF point close to a focus target, the camera sometimes start to adjust the focus closer, even though it's not supposed to be close enough to trigger the actual AF response... Just repeating something I have read. Can not vouch for the accuracy.

Anyhoo... I think the 5Dmkiii is an awesome camera, and much more capable than most people will be able to use to the max.

Last point on the fps... 4, 6, 8 or 12 fps ?! Only difference is that you need to work harder at a slow fps to get the perfect point of action. I have found that in certain situations, between 2 frames,mone was too short, one too long... Just a little bit closer on either would have been great ( ie 8fps) but to me, for most of my work 6fps would be perfect.

[manus]

Yep, both you and Grant is correct, the more frame rate the better, especially in an action sequence!!! Re the AF expansion and selected AF point being the prioritized AF point, time will tell and I think when the 1DX arrives we will have even more insight!!