iTTL or manual with off camera flash

[walterpike]

I was wondering how many people use the iTTL (or whatever the cannon version is) mode for their off camera flash photography. I know it works but I was surprised at how often I have decided rather to use manual settings. (could have saved myself a few bucks on speedlights as well)

I would love to learn from your experience of why you do what you do.

[Chris F]

thus far E-TTL has served me WELL.


but some day I would love to be able to KNOW how to go about doing all this totally manually - not just the odd +2/3 on the speedlight.

As nice as this feature is, I hate being a slave to technology. It should help me, not dictate what I can do ...

[Leo Theron]

I was wondering how many people use the iTTL (or whatever the cannon version is) mode for their off camera flash photography. I know it works but I was surprised at how often I have decided rather to use manual settings. (could have saved myself a few bucks on speedlights as well)

I would love to learn from your experience of why you do what you do.

To be able to use iTTL (or even manual) flash exposure with off-camera flash, you need a trigger (camera, compatible flash, IR trigger) that is part of the Nikon CLS system before it will work - or am I missing your point? Oopppps - you can also use a Nikon cable!

But to answer the question: I use a Nikon SU-800 flash commander and a SB-800 and two SB-600 flashes - Everything is controlled by the SU-800 trigger, so you do not have to touch the flashes once you have set them up.

[Dave_]

Using different methods totally depends on how or what you are shooting. If your subject is roughly the same distance from your lights, then manual works well. Remembering the inverse square law, if your subject moves further away, you will need to compensate with more light or lower F stop. If you can anticipate this or use a light meter, then manual is king.

However, if your subject moves around a lot (for example during a Wedding), then eTTL or iTTL is better, as the camera can adjust a lot quicker than you can.

Experience does change these a bit though, as some guys are good enough to use manual exclusively. I mostly use manual when at all possible, except for unplanned shots. For example the wedding ceremony, where you cant control the subject.

p.s. I am not that good in case the last sentence hints I am

[mariusmeyer]

If you want to go with more creative lighting then manual is the only way.

[TheronFamily]

If you want to go with more creative lighting then manual is the only way.

that's a bit of a generalisation really...
if your off camera flash is in a fixed position, set on manual, and your subject moves, how quickly will you adjust to compensate? Or will you re-meter your subject for correct ratios?
how many stops or fractions thereof will you add per metre that your subject has moved?

Creativity can be achieved automatically, using auto and flash comp, or even EV comp for ambient. Not to mention stuff like FV lock that actually locks your auto flash exposure indefinitely, which can be compensated too.

[Leo Theron]

If you want to go with more creative lighting then manual is the only way.

Says who?

[walterpike]

Maybe my question is just too general and vaque so in an attempt to fix that. Maybe that in spite of reading on the CLS and fiddling with it I just don't know if I can predict what's going to happen consistently, its part of my learning curve I guess. I feel comfortable with the M settings instead of TTL still using the speedlight as a CLS remote so I adjust it from the camera.

My setup is that I have a SB800 and two SB900s as well as a Nissin Di622 which I had bought earlier. I trigger using either the on camera pop up which i set up not to contribute to the lighting or the SB800 as commander if it is to be used to provide fill as well. When the Di622 is involved all the the lights are set up as SU-4 mode (optical slaves)

I hope that I am not rambling on and confusing the issue. But whereas Nikon have developed the sophisticated TTL mode where the camera works out and controls the flash output which you can adjust with compensation. I just find it easier to understand with each channel set to M (manual) I wondered what other guys do, or whether I am an oddity.

I can see that if you are photographing an event especially with the flash on camera, iTTL is logical. I am talking more about more static setups - when I am trying to make a photograph.

[Dave_]

My experience is that OCF beginners start with eTTL/iTTL and then later move more to Manual. This is a bit of a generalization though, so perhaps I should say "strobist". Although you are the other way around?

If you are happy and comfortable using Manual, then why use automatic? In a static setup, Manual will be far more consistent shot for shot. Whereas eTTL/iTTL can change depending on your subject (e.g. more or less reflective, colour, etc...).

I would recommend manual almost all the time for a static setup. eTTL/iTTL can be really inconsistent.

[walterpike]

My experience is that OCF beginners start with eTTL/iTTL and then later move more to Manual. This is a bit of a generalization though, so perhaps I should say "strobist". Although you are the other way around?

Ha ha - My problem is that I try to understand what I am doing, whatever that is. Relying on the tech to work it out robs me of the understanding - Although I have no problem using the tech if I understand it in this case I don't quite - except in very general terms. So using TTL has made me frustrated because I don't know why I am getting the results I am.

[Dave_]

Ha ha - My problem is that I try to understand what I am doing

- Not a bad thing at all!

However I must warn you, this attitude may exempt you from every working in government

[EttVenter]

I ONLY use my off-camera flashes in manual. I've literally never used ETTL/iTTL/whateverTTL. Defining the exact settings for every single light makes my lighting setup exactly what I want it to be.

[walterpike]

- Not a bad thing at all!

However I must warn you, this attitude may exempt you from every working in government

Ha ha - what a blow - how will I ever survive?

[Leo Theron]

Walter,

In the end you need to control the ratios of light to get the image the way you want it. An yes, I understand that you also use light modifiers - softboxes, brollies and a snoot or two.

If you want to go manual - you can do so from the commanding flash, by setting the power levels - to get the effect(s) that you want. Or you can use SU-4 mode and set all the levels… Now you need faf around with the power levels, getting distances right and move flashes around to get levels right. Or, you use CLS/iTTL, dial in what you want and shoot. It is easy - do you want to fool around with flashes, power levels, distances from subject and …. or do you want to get pictures? If you want to get pictures - with CLS and iTTL it is just very, very easy.

Contrary to popular believe, a SU-800 will trigger a SB-7/8/900 in full sunlight. No other stuff required.

[walterpike]

If you want to go manual - you can do so from the commanding flash, by setting the power levels - to get the effect(s) that you want. Or you can use SU-4 mode and set all the levels… Now you need faf around with the power levels, getting distances right and move flashes around to get levels right. Or, you use CLS/iTTL, dial in what you want and shoot. It is easy - do you want to fool around with flashes, power levels, distances from subject and …. or do you want to get pictures? If you want to get pictures - with CLS and iTTL it is just very, very easy.

Contrary to popular believe, a SU-800 will trigger a SB-7/8/900 in full sunlight.

I hear you Leo, I don't think you are wrong and maybe I am just over thinking this. BTW I have never had a problem even in sunlight to get my pop up flash to trigger the flash.

[Leo Theron]

W,

You are right, the CLS/iTTL works SO well, that you might just find yourself 'over thinking' - or is it overcooking? - it.

Now where are your CLS exposed shots?

[Larry]

This seems to be a "are you a Joe McNally follower, or a David Hobby follower?"

I must be backwards as I started playing with off camera flash in manual and only later discovered how amazing Nikon's CLS is.

Both have their place and their advantages.

[Leo Theron]

This seems to be a "are you a Joe McNally follower, or a David Hobby follower?"

I must be backwards as I started playing with off camera flash in manual and only later discovered how amazing Nikon's CLS is.

Both have their place and their advantages.

Larry,

I think you are right… each has it place. And CLS is a very well kept secret.

However, Hobby and McNally had a 'flash bus' tour in America - so I'm not sure who saw the light!

To me the real benefit of the CLS system is that you can try it, use it and master it, without adding a set of Pocket Wizards - or another Wizard if you want to add another flash.

[walterpike]

This seems to be a "are you a Joe McNally follower, or a David Hobby follower?"

I must be backwards as I started playing with off camera flash in manual and only later discovered how amazing Nikon's CLS is.

Both have their place and their advantages.

Seems that we both suffer from the same "backward" affliction I also read a lot and both Hobbs and McNally - I am on the stage in my relativally short photographic journey where I am trying my best to understand light. Brian Petersen has also written on it - very simply.

And the really amazing and essential "light, science and magic"

I can see what people have achieved using the CLS system and it is amazing, and as I say I may well be over thinking it all. Like for example I know that the camera looks at the exposure of the entire scene and then looks at the contribution of each (compensated) but how does it do that. The sensor needs to facing the commander light, which may mean that the window the front on the flash body - not the fresnel may be facing away from the subject. What then?

I never seem to have time when there are people about so what happens is that I set up with M settings within the CLS system and not TTL and wonder...

I'll get there.

[Leo Theron]

Walter,

CLS light measurement for iTTL takes place IN THE CAMERA. You must just make sure that you light (direct or modified) is on the subject and that the the small round window on the side of the flash points in the direction of the commander (SU-800) or commander flash (pop-up or SB-6/7/900 and 910.

I got a special model (Pop) in to understand CLS. It helped a lot. Results are here: http://www.pbase.com/leot/pop