New Classifieds ruling.

[Roberto]

How about "by invite" only via any or selected premium member on ODP, similar to what Gmail did?

So basically I would have to make contact with a premium member I personally know or have met in order to open a classified account and they would either yay or nay you. The premium member would then contact the ODP site in order to register the new classified member.

This way there will also be a record of the premium member and the people they invited.

Hope this makes sense.

[WayneB]

How about a system whereby every person that wants to advertise in the classifieds has to provide ODP with full contact information, identity information, address information, and place of work information before they are permitted to advertise on ODP? There would be a certain amount of work necessary in order for ODP to confirm the validity of this information provided, but I would guess it would reduce the scammers and opportunity seekers to next to nothing if they knew that their personal information was available to ODP in the event that they were caught trying to commit fraud.

ODP could not publish this information or make it commonly available as it would be a breach of confidentiality, however they would have it available to assist with criminal cases against fraudsters and scammers, and could provide it to the SAPS in such cases. This would increase the public faith in the classifieds system and would make it very dangerous for the scammers and fraudsters because their identities would be known.

My 2c.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

How about a system whereby every person that wants to advertise in the classifieds has to provide ODP with full contact information, identity information, address information, and place of work information before they are permitted to advertise on ODP? There would be a certain amount of work necessary in order for ODP to confirm the validity of this information provided, but I would guess it would reduce the scammers and opportunity seekers to next to nothing if they knew that their personal information was available to ODP in the event that they were caught trying to commit fraud.

ODP could not publish this information or make it commonly available as it would be a breach of confidentiality, however they would have it available to assist with criminal cases against fraudsters and scammers, and could provide it to the SAPS in such cases. This would increase the public faith in the classifieds system and would make it very dangerous for the scammers and fraudsters because their identities would be known.

My 2c.

Ah... nooo... And if we check them, (which costs a few bucks every time) and somewhere along the line they are smart enough to slip through the gaps and some fraud occurs... what would be ODP's position on the matter? or what if the product is just misrepresented... ODP's involvement in a member to member issue remains a problem for us...

[WayneB]

Ah... nooo... And if we check them, (which costs a few bucks every time) and somewhere along the line they are smart enough to slip through the gaps and some fraud occurs... what would be ODP's position on the matter? or what if the product is just misrepresented... ODP's involvement in a member to member issue remains a problem for us...

Well, if you combine this with the idea of charging a nominal fee for advertising each ad in the classifieds then there would be no cost implication to ODP, and in fact ODP may stand to make a little money out of the classifieds. Not much mind you, but enough to offset any cost involved in checking out the potential advertisers.

As far as ODP's involvement is concerned, it would be strictly on the basis that ODP has vetted each seller and can confirm that they are who thye claim to be, nothing more. If the seller misrepresents his product for sale that is between the buyer and the seller, however in the event of no compromise being reached ODP still has the strong persuasive argument that they have the seller's details and can proide those in the event of a legal dispute.

I don't believe that the biggest problem is the seller misrepresenting his products for sale, I believe it is more of a case of scam artists trying to sell products that simply domn't exist, and curbimng that would seem to me to be the primary goal not so?

Again, just my 2c-worth.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

I don't believe that the biggest problem is the seller misrepresenting his products for sale, I believe it is more of a case of scam artists trying to sell products that simply domn't exist, and curbimng that would seem to me to be the primary goal not so?
...

The misrepresentation has become a problem, that is why we started to require actual images of the products. Obviously somebody can still just pull a shot from the net and lie, but that part will be up to them then.

I do believe our current solution has had the best effect on the scammers so far. Free members can trade for free, premium members gets an advantage and single people representing a club's second hand sales, etc can apply for a special membership to trade more as long as it's not new items....

[WayneB]

The misrepresentation has become a problem, that is why we started to require actual images of the products. Obviously somebody can still just pull a shot from the net and lie, but that part will be up to them then.

Ok well I have clearly been fortunate not to have encountered this then. I have sold several items on the site and bought a good few too, but so far I have obviously been lucky in that I have not been scammed or had products misrepresented to me.

I would like to make a suggestion though, when it comes to user feedback I would love to see an easier way to get to the page where you can add user feedback to someone you have had dealings with. It is still a bit cumbersome as I found out the other day when I bought something from flloydthebarber. I would like to see a button on the ad page that takes you straight to the page where you can add feedback. I would also love to see a system where users are somehow urged to leave feedback for people they have had dealings with. As it stands at the moment for example I could have had a lot more feedback for myself if those that had bought from me in the past were 'bugged' by a pop-up urging them to give me feedback, and it would help if I was reminded that I hadn't given feedback to those I have bought from.

I'm not sure how that could be made to work, but if it was it would increase the feedback people dealing in the classifieds have to view before making a choice to buy from or sell to someone that they effectively don't necessarily know from a bar of soap.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

...I'm not sure how that could be made to work, but if it was it would increase the feedback people dealing in the classifieds have to view before making a choice to buy from or sell to someone that they effectively don't necessarily know from a bar of soap.

It's never been a great priority because we are very specific that you cannot run a business on the classifieds. The idea was always and have always been not to be a junkmail or e-bay copy. The thinking has always been on this side, If you occasionally sell a lens or a body (once or twice a year, maybe?) why would you need a rating?

And seeing that it's just as easy to scam the rating system and "character references" why bug people with a pop-up forcing them to review or rate?

[WayneB]

Well you're just overflowing with openness and positivity today aren't you Sean?

Ok, well at least I said my piece. If i'm not agreed with so be it.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

Well you're just overflowing with openness and positivity today aren't you Sean?

Ok, well at least I said my piece. If i'm not agreed with so be it.

Hehehehe... nope... just explaining why it's never been a priority... With the CPA looming on everything we do, we are revisiting a lot of our current functions and services to make sure we do not shoot ourselves in the foot while trying to be helpful

[WayneB]

Yes, good point about the CPA. We're doing the same at the office to see how the far-reaching impact of the CPA will affect us.

[Dallas]

It's just a simple thing: if you want to buy something, know your seller. If you want to sell something, know your customer. When those two conditions are met having a decent transaction shouldn't be an issue. The only time I ever got scammed was ironically on bidorbuy where they supposedly hve the greatest amount of protection for both parties. I bid on a Nikon lens and won. The seller had perfect feedback but then after I paid (admittedly not a lot of money) he just disappeared. bob blacklisted him, but it goes to show that even with the feedback bad deals can still happen.

What you should do to cover yourselves is add a bit in the T&C's and make sure that every time an ad is placed a box with those T&C's has to be ticked before the ad is placed. Caveat Emptor.

[Karin Leibbrandt]

Everyone should take responsibility for their own purchases - whether it be good used equipment, or then the decision to rather buy brand new. I don't think it is ODP's job or responsibility to "protect" the buyers from scammers - similarly, Junkmail, etc don't protect buyers against scammers.
I think the idea of having everyone's name, address, ID, etc, is maybe a good idea, though. I am glad I won't have to administer it, though!

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

Everyone should take responsibility for their own purchases - whether it be good used equipment, or then the decision to rather buy brand new. I don't think it is ODP's job or responsibility to "protect" the buyers from scammers - similarly, Junkmail, etc don't protect buyers against scammers...

well... all good and well, but we have to comply with legal requirements...

[Karin Leibbrandt]

That is true, Sean.

An organisation who deals honestly and with integrity and responsibly, would seldom, if ever, get caught by CPA. In fact, CPA is a blessing for traders, because what the honest trader had been doing anyway, is now law.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

That is true, Sean.

An organisation who deals honestly and with integrity and responsibly, would seldom, if ever, get caught by CPA. In fact, CPA is a blessing for traders, because what the honest trader had been doing anyway, is now law.

Well.. that is the question... we host a service that allows others to advertise/sell/trade... sometimes with less than stellar ethics

[Karin Leibbrandt]

I would love to hear what the legal eagles say.
My opinion is that a simple standard disclaimer on every ad should do the trick?

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

...My opinion is that a simple standard disclaimer on every ad should do the trick?

If that is the case, it would solve more than a few of my problems!

[Karin Leibbrandt]

If that is the case, it would solve more than a few of my problems!

Sean, I am not a legal beagle eagle, but from the albeit very limited training and experience I have on CPA, especially the advertising side, the CPA wants honesty in adverts. The purpose of the CPA is to protect unsuspecting customers, and if an ad is placed with a very clear disclaimer that ODP is not responsible, it should be sufficient.

I would love to hear what the lawyers say, but I think it would be wise to get a CPA specialist to give an opinion. With cameras, we are talking mucha bucks and if people lose money, well, they would try anything to blame and claim someone.

[SoftDux-Rudi]

How many ads are we allowed to post?

I just tried to post a new add, and got the following error:

You have exceeded your maximum allowed limit of 7 ads.

So I then deleted a few and tried again, and now I get this:

You have exceeded your maximum allowed limit of 2 ads.

[Forgiss - Sean Nel]

How many ads are we allowed to post?

I just tried to post a new add, and got the following error:



So I then deleted a few and tried again, and now I get this:

Hi Rudi,

Free accounts have a limit of 2 active ads at a time.