Sync speed query

[Ryan Drummond]

I was messing around with my studio setup, and I noticed that as soon as I shoot at 1\200 I begin to get a black shaddow across the base of the frame, 1/250 is worse. If I shoot at 1\500 the bottom half of the frame is black but I expected not to be able to shoot at this ss.

What confuses me is that I was expecting to shoot usable images up to 1/250. At this stage 1\125 is all I am happy with.

I shoot a 1DSii and am concerned with ss as I will be shooting at times in a mixed (ambient/strobe) enviroment. I use a sekonic light meter.

What am I missing here,

Ryan

[janosa]

What are you using to trigger your lights, a sync cord or radio/optical triggers? What kind of studio strobe? From what I can find in Goolge, you should be getting 1/250 reliably so there is room for improvement.

[Ryan Drummond]

Elinchrom Skyport system which according to the manual can sync at 1/1000. I shoot with Monoblock RX 600 I have 4 of them. All lights are used with seperate triggers, no slave.

I have done a little searching and found a thread on DP review where the issue was discussed, the concensus was that 1/200 is about the max speed for the DSii and 5Dii.

[mikeH]

remember your camera has two curtains and the flash is only linked to one so as the one opens the other closes,shutter speed has nothing to do with studio flash most good studio lights work around 1/8000 .you can try this if you studio is pitch black set camera on tripod and set shutter to 1 sec and keep taking shots to 1/250 and you will find the exposure is the same but you will start to get the black band as the lights are firing after the curtain starts to move,remember there is a time delay between when the shutter starts and the strobes fire it is a few milliseconds.
hope you understand this .
that is why i use the old standard for film days of 1/60 also some triggers are not fast to trigger above 1/100.
so stick to 1/60 and have no problems.

[kappaj]

Ryan - with speed above your camera's normal sync speed, you can use high-sync function on normal 430 and 580 speedlights for ss above 1/200.

This mode fires 3 flashes during exposure, one during one curtain, on during no curtain and one during the last curtain passing the censor. That way you get a "3 exposure in one".
Studio lights cannot replicate this, that why you get the black areas when the curtain is before the sensor.
Will search for a link I have read and post on Monday.

[kappaj]

ok - got it before my cap limit was reached!

This explains the high speed sync very well.

Because the studio flashes dump their energy in one single burst, it cannot replicate the three burst and thus not sync at higher at 1/160 on most camera's.

http://www.canon.co.jp/imaging/flash...igh/index.html

[gpw]

I was messing around with my studio setup, and I noticed that as soon as I shoot at 1\200 I begin to get a black shaddow across the base of the frame, 1/250 is worse. If I shoot at 1\500 the bottom half of the frame is black but I expected not to be able to shoot at this ss.

What confuses me is that I was expecting to shoot usable images up to 1/250. At this stage 1\125 is all I am happy with.

I shoot a 1DSii and am concerned with ss as I will be shooting at times in a mixed (ambient/strobe) enviroment. I use a sekonic light meter.

What am I missing here,

Ryan

Why do you want to shoot above 1/200 in studio ? Shutterspeed plays no role in studio unless you make use of ambient

[Ryan Drummond]

Hi GPW

I was exploring the option of my max ss as a variable I had to know. I will be shooting in a non studio enviroment, against a very dark backdrop with varying levels of ambient light. My light meter will determin my exposure with apperture but I was wondering if I could use some ambient to lighten up the backdrop, by dropping my ss.

I was attempting to find out my max ss as a starting point. My interest was also awakened as I was expecting a sync of 1/250. When things are different to the manual one always begins to assume there is an underlying fault with the equipment.

I could light the backdrop, but would rather not.

[janosa]

RyanD

How old is the battery in the transmitter? Have you tried a fresh one? I have used Skyports at 1/500 so know they should easily do 1/250.

I did a bit of Googling around to try and help but the only info I could find on the matter was the one DPreview thread you mentioned and one or two mentions here and there. I find this a little strange. If it were a common problem that the 1Ds MKII can't sync at 1/250 and the manufacturer advertises that it can, I'd expect to see a lot more whinging about it on the net with mobs grabbing pitch-forks and firing up torches and what not. All the specs I could find on your camera states 1/250 as max sync speed and yet I find to large-scale complaining. This does not make sense. I could just be me though.

Unfortunately I can't advise much more as I dont have a Canon and there isn't much that can go wrong when using Skyports except for flat batteries. Hopefully a studio shooter with the same setup will chime in. I find syncing at 1/250 essential as I often have to work in high ambient environments, so understand why this is a pain. Hope you get it sorted.

[Sean van Tonder]

Ryan, I have a similar problem - i can not shoot above 1/125 without the black band. If I use normal speedlights all works fine, it is just in studio. Has it not got something to do with the flash duration of the lights?

[Ryan Drummond]

Hi Janosa and Sean

Thanks for the input guys, Janosa the battery in the transmitter is brand new and faultless when altering outputs on the units so it seems to be transmitting correctly. I agree an the pitchforks and witchunter crowd when anything falls short of the manual but as you say the advertised synch speed is 1/250 and I would be happy if I could attain that as then I would know everything is working properly, even if I dont need the ss, I need to know everything is functioning correctly. I have googled the question and that thread on DP review says the same as what I experienced so that seems to be that nothing above 1/200 and then one would be cropping the bottom of the frame off.

Sean what they say is misery loves company and I hope someone can sort this out for us, one thing I have thought of is that I have set my custom function to rear curtain sync for flash images, I will set it to first curtain and let you know what happens.

Thanks for taking the time guys
Ryan

[James Mitchell]

Sean - I think you may be suffering from the lag between the transmitter and Speedlite. Does it do the same thing with on-camera flash? Apparently, some 5D's suffer worse than others. I don't know much more than that, I'm afriad.

[Sean van Tonder]

Sean - I think you may be suffering from the lag between the transmitter and Speedlite. Does it do the same thing with on-camera flash? Apparently, some 5D's suffer worse than others. I don't know much more than that, I'm afriad.

If I use a flash, no problem. Only studio. Even OCF is fine. I really think that it has something to do with flash duration.
" Using a faster shutter speed (1/250th or higher) can result in partial flash exposures because the shutter curtain was not fully open, or no flash being recorded at all." See:
http://ir.webphotoschool.com/Photofl...tup/index.html . (about 3/4 down the page). Although it is actually about certain lights, the concept remains.

[Robbie A]

I have at times found that when using wireless my sync speed must be reduced to about 125th or alse I get black stripes, however when using the sync cable directly into the camera, I can easily shoot at higher SS's.. never really been a problem cause in studio SS doesn't really play any role in result. I never investigated this but merely put it down to the delay on the RF signal.

[PhotoMad]

Have you tried with a different camera? Just thinking it may be interesting to try with a camera model with a pop up flash & using the pop up to trigger the lights. Assuming the lights have optic slave built in. At least this'll show whether the issue is lights or delay due to wireless transmission.
I can use my old lights at up to 500th (D70) if I have too.

[Ryan Drummond]

Ok Just tried out a few things, With the sync cable used as a direct link as the trigger the black band is only evident at 1/320. At 1/250 there is no banding. This was a 3 light setup with one monoblock cable fired and 2 slave fired.

First or second curtain has no discernable difference.

Thus the delay is pointed at the skyport trigger system which is strange as I checked the manual again and it states "1/1000 ss"


Ryan

[Sean van Tonder]

Ok Just tried out a few things, With the sync cable used as a direct link as the trigger the black band is only evident at 1/320. At 1/250 there is no banding. This was a 3 light setup with one monoblock cable fired and 2 slave fired.

First or second curtain has no discernable difference.

Thus the delay is pointed at the skyport trigger system which is strange as I checked the manual again and it states "1/1000 ss"


Ryan

Interesting. I need to try this as well. Strange though, if I use the same triggers on my flashes, no black band. I will also check this out.

[Mariusbez]

Will all be covered in the workshop. See you the 6th of march

[CanonShooter]

Skyports < PocketWizard

Keep it at 1/160th in the studio if you really want (as others have mentioned already) it makes no difference, but agreed with the ambient on location. Knock it down to ISO50 and jam up the power on your lights. 2400W packs easily kill more ambient.

[gpw]

Hi GPW

I was exploring the option of my max ss as a variable I had to know. I will be shooting in a non studio enviroment, against a very dark backdrop with varying levels of ambient light. My light meter will determin my exposure with apperture but I was wondering if I could use some ambient to lighten up the backdrop, by dropping my ss.

I was attempting to find out my max ss as a starting point. My interest was also awakened as I was expecting a sync of 1/250. When things are different to the manual one always begins to assume there is an underlying fault with the equipment.

I could light the backdrop, but would rather not.

I never shoot beyond 1/200 when using lights, the camera will not sinc with the lights. I have tried the Speedlight High Speed Sinc and got nice shots up to 1/1000, but with studio lights on location always stay under 1/200. As said, lower your ISO to 50 (if you can) and use a polarizing filter for another stop. With lights on location your background/ambient is controlled by your shutterspeed and your main light determines your apperture.